Joce Aucoin says you need a divorce (from the need to be "good" at your art)
Creative Dialogue #6
Creative Dialogues is an ongoing project to learn from fellow artists. I’ve interviewed an astonishingly wonderful variety of creative individuals about their art, creative practices, and how they make it all work (interviews are ongoing — DM me if you’d like to participate).
How it works: I send every participant a list of questions about creativity and the creative practice. They respond to the five questions that resonate most, so every interview reflects the artist’s own curiosities and interests.
Today’s interview is with Joce Aucoin (she/her). Joce is a talented writer and visual artist (have you seen her collages?). More than that, she’s one of the bravest people I know. She turns creative risk-taking into an art form. Fun fact: We’ve been friends since 2012, and we’ve still never met in person! Someday we’ll finally remedy that...
Joce (she/her) is a writer, artist, and sometimes consultant. She ran an indie record label in the early 2000s and has a deep love of creativity, the creative process, and the people brave enough to make shit. She writes Jump + Pray, a free weekly newsletter about art, writing, and inspiration for living the creative life. She and her adorable dog Bean are based in Ojai, CA.
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When did you first realize you were an artist?
I’ve always known I loved the arts, but I didn’t consciously consider myself a writer until after college. And I didn’t call myself an artist until a few years ago (I’m 44!).
I don’t like labels and have always been reluctant to take any on. So my realization of who I am came by trial and error out in the world. By trying to fit into boxes that didn’t suit me.
Parker Palmer wrote an incredible book on this called Let Your Life Speak. Even that title holds so much wisdom. Your life — what you love and don’t love, where you find joy and what you learn in the struggle — has a lot to say to you about you.
And I’m still learning. I’m a work in progress — not in a sad way but in the “who knows what I will become” way!
Creativity isn’t about a thing you produce; it’s a state of being. A way of living. A drawing near to things that are generative for your soul.
Have there been times when you felt out of touch with your creative self? If so, how did you rediscover your creativity?
I was in a bad car accident in my early 20s. Totaled my car on an LA freeway. Terrifying. After the accident, I couldn’t drive without feeling like I was choking — good times! I came to realize this choking thing was panic attacks. I went to the doc and was put on the antidepressant Paxil. It helped with the driving — I could get to work and all — but it completely knocked out my impulse to create. I remember when I came off it thinking, I haven’t written anything in years! I hadn’t even realized it had happened, either.
Rediscovering my creative self was a slow reintegration, and it wasn’t conscious. It was more of a remembering or a pursuit of what brings me joy. I got a dog. I started thrifting again. I moved apartments and repurposed some old furniture for it. Started a blog or two.
Creativity isn’t about a thing you produce; it’s a state of being. A way of living. A drawing near to things that are generative for your soul.
What encouragement would you give to someone who’s struggling to get in touch with their creative self?
I’d encourage people to get quiet. Learn to listen for the small voice inside — the one that knows you, knows what you need. Journal stream of consciousness. If you don’t like writing, record voice memos. Don’t worry about what comes out. Good, bad, ugly — let it out.
Then I’d say to follow whatever comes up that feels energizing. Maybe that’s going to the flea market or a craft store and just seeing what catches your eye. Maybe it’s taking that hip hop dance class or playing pickleball. The more absurd it sounds, the more you should do it. Just get yourself into a place of play.
Play is a different state of mind, and it can help us do so many things. One of my artist heroes, Lynda Barry, talks about this, the importance of play and learning from kids because they’re so good at it. Oh yeah! And find creatives that inspire you. Study them, learn from them.
Stop thinking about it and just do it. There is no right or wrong. There is only making and not making.
What is one thing you believe about creativity that most people would disagree with?
I believe everyone is creative. I don’t feel people necessarily disagree with this, even if they say they do. I think deep down they want this to be true and feel that it’s true! They just doubt it because our culture has peddled a myth that creativity is only gifted to a special few. No. Creativity is a birthright of being human. We are all creative!
If anything, creativity is a state of mind. A propensity for getting yourself into a particular zone or way of being that allows ideas to come through. Then it’s acting on those ideas. Divorcing yourself from the outcome or if it’s “good.”
Along with this, I also really believe that art is language. It’s communication. Can writing be bad? Yes, but we can all write if we are literate. We can put one word in front of another. Art is the same. Any creative practice is the same. It’s putting one word in front of another. That’s it.
Our culture has peddled a myth that creativity is only gifted to a special few. No. Creativity is a birthright of being human. We are all creative!
What is one thing you’d tell your younger self about building a creative practice?
Stop thinking about it and just do it. There is no right or wrong. There is only making and not making. My Substack is called Jump + Pray and that’s my advice. Jump and pray! Don’t have one foot in and one foot out. Throw your whole dang self in there! Do like Ray Bradbury said — take the leap and build your wings on the way down.
What is one thing this community can do to support you and your work?
I’m going to say the uncomfortable thing, which is to put your money where your love is. Do you love an artist? Buy shit from them. Buy their records, buy their merch, upgrade to paid on their Substack. A lot of creatives struggle with being paid for their work, but we as a society are in dire need of the beauty, comfort, and connection that art brings, and we all need to make a living. Money is an exchange of energy. If you get energy from an artist, consider what energy you can give back.
Any final thoughts on creativity you’d care to leave us with?
Thank you, Robin, for being a force for creative good! I’m grateful for this opportunity to share some of my heart with your community.
Do you love an artist? Buy shit from them. Buy their records, buy their merch, upgrade to paid on their Substack. Money is an exchange of energy. If you get energy from an artist, consider what energy you can give back.
Loved this. Especially what she said about art being a language. I feel that way too. I think that the Egyptians did as well and that's why there are no writings found but paintings of what went on in their lives. Language in paintings. In my eyes, it's simply a matter of being able to read those writings. I just find that amazing! Anyway, wonderful interview and I think you guys will meet one day. I've known some other artists online for years and we met years later as well. So, ya never do know! Ya know!? *GRINS*
Excited about the book rec! What a great q&a to read ☺️